Seen At 11

BROOKLYN (CBS) ― We agreed to talk outside the Federal courthouse in Brooklyn. She has just been at a hearing where three sets of lawyers had gone at it in front of federal judge Robert Levy. With her at the table, her lawyers, her ex-husband Carmine Agnello's lawyers, and the representative for the government, Assistant U.S. Attorney Edward Newman.

The government wants its money. The nearly $9 million Agnello agreed to forfeit when he went away for racketeering in 2000 (he just got paroled a few weeks ago, restricted to Ohio).

But before the government can liquidate several properties he owns, Victoria has essentially said, Wait a minute -- some of that is mine as well. And my ex promised to pay child support. And, we haven't seen a dime.

Maybe this is why this very private woman -- what you saw on "Growing Up Gotti" was what she allowed you to see -- maybe this is why she and I were able to talk so candidly, conversationally, outside the Federal court -- with a camera present.

"You really don't like it when people call you some kind of 'princess.' You've been taking care of your family on your own, is that right?" I asked.

"I have. I have. And I have since I was 15. So, you know, to hear people say things like that. Or, you know, in this case, 'Mr. Agnello' " ["Mr. Agnello!"] " 'gave me X, Y and Z' or, 'Gives me X, Y, and Z' -- I'm the only person that supports my kids today. Mr. Agnello and everybody else can pass judgment: they weren't in the bursar's office at college last week when, you know, $16,000 was due (referring to a college payment for her middle son)."

"So, I would love, I'd welcome anybody to come on in with me, and then they can take the credit; they can have anything they want -- In lieu of credit. Or even, blame."

"You know, I'm the only one -- and, when the bills are done every month, and, everything has to be paid. Believe me, there's much debt. As a single, working mom: there's nobody else sitting there with me at the table! Saying, 'Well, this is' " {and here she mimics someone shelling money out} "'this is what I'm contributing…' You know: I've made the money. And…nobody! Not inheritance, not nothing!"

I tell her, "You know, there's people out there that assume, 'Oh, she got from her father … ' " She cuts me off.

"Oh, no: everything that I have --- I've not taken a dime from my father. And that's more out of pride, than anything else. Believe me, he offered over the years."

"You know, he's from the old school. He believes that women should be home, you know … in the kitchen … and, taken care of." She says what follows with an exaggerated move of her head and eyes, underlying how she hardly thinks women are made out of porcelain: "Fragile, little things."

"You're not like that?"

With a slight chuckle, she replies, "I'm not like that."

"I'm too proud," she continues. "And everything I own, you know --- I bought!" She says that last word almost defiantly, and it seems to bring out a fighter inside her. Someone who wants to let jealous types know, she's been listening: "And if they're nice things, you know what? I worked really hard to get them. So..." Her voice trails off; she looks at the ground, almost as if dismissing some unseen accuser. Like, so if you don't like it? Tough.

"There is one thing," I tell her, "that I know you got from your mom, and your pop: the way you are. I mean, you very much are their daughter." "I am," she says smiling. "And I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it."

Then I ask her how she thinks this three-way battle over the money is going to turn out, and how her three sons have been affected, being in the middle of all this -- in the middle of their parents' dispute. "It's been an eight-year fight…"

"You know what, I learned a long time ago, Pablo … and I made the same mistakes that everybody else did: you know, you get them in this war. And they're caught up in the middle. And then you one day, stop and you realize -- at least the devoted parent will stop and see the residual damage. And I, since, won't make them privy to anything that may compromise how they feel about their father. If they ask, you know, he's still the greatest guy in the world."

"And that's how my father pretty much, raised me to be. And, sometimes it's kind of hard to follow. You --- you try."

"But where the kids are concerned? You know, they're men now. And they have their own … eyes and ears. They can do their own thinking, their own judging. I know that they'll never hear from me, that he's anything less than great. And that's for their sake, for their benefit."

"But it is difficult, and especially difficult, as I said, with my middle son. Who last week, came to me, and said, 'You know, I feel so terrible, Mommy, coming to you and handing you my bursar's bill for college. When I know it's supposed to go to Dad.' And you know what? I said to him, 'No. This is one thing I'd gladly pay.' I mean, it does bother me, in the back of my mind, because: there is a man that should be taking responsibility for children. Every man should. So..." This time when her voice trails off, it's as if she wonders what might have been.

I mention that this is the same courthouse where, years before, when they were still married, she came to put up the proceeds from her book to help then-husband Carmine make bail: "I did, ironically. I put up my book … I put up everything I ever had. Just before the divorce, you know, he was opening a new business; and I lent him --- " (her sarcastic tone here has to be seen for full impact) " --- a large sum of money. So that's the irony here: I never saw the monies back. And: I don't think I will."

Scott Leemon, lawyer for Carmine Agnello, is standing nearby, and tells me later: "All Mr. Agnello wants, is this judgment to be satisfied," referring to the $8 million-plus the government says he still owes. "And, he wants his ex-wife and children to be taken care of. He's served over nine years in prison. He's just gotten out. You can't make money when you're in jail! So he can't be expected to make any payments or anything, while he's in prison!"

The government, of course, argues that they should have gotten their money from Carmine a long time ago. And that after they're allowed to liquidate the assets, Victoria can put in a claim for what's left.

Victoria, though, wants her money and the kids' money right now. As per Mr. Agnello's divorce agreement.

This will be argued for some time.

The "serious" conversation over, Victoria does that thing, where she looks you up and down quickly. The girl has a bit of flirt in her. "You look good."

She did something similar once years before: "Been working out?" she purred. They're still laughing in the newsroom after I told them that. It's been many a moon since anyone looked at me and asked, Been working out?

"I have to lose weight," I told her more than a bit self-consciously. Swatting the ball back to her court, I said, "You look good." "No," she persists, "you look good. Men don't have to lose weight. We do. We gain two pounds, we're in trouble."

"Actually, you could put on a pound or two."

"Ah, that's good. I'm going to go home and enjoy some Twinkies."

I remember it's Super Tuesday. "Hey, did you vote?"

"Of course! Who do you think I voted for?" I figure some things should be private. I motion for her lean in; she whispers. "What?!" I jump back when she tells me the name. "Get out!"

"Hey, Pablo, I'm of the new world. You know that." A smile lights up her face as she walks away.

(© MMIX, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

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